Helm - Yes or No?
- Thread starter Yash
- Start date
ungrounded
Perch
Yash said:
Personally, I have no use for multiple databases. I prefer everything to be together. That said, I suppose Option #1 would work best for me -- just pay for the usage I require...
Dave
Perch
I can't see how that could be. My SQL database probably has records still counting in the hundreds, and it's already 6 Mb, not counting the transacation log.hatton said:
As for the discussion about what specific option works best for people, I think it's fairly obvious so far that a lot of people have different needs, which I personally feel is one of the current selling points for JodoHost; most people can configure their web space to suit their needs.
Also, I'm somewhat concerned about the seemingly rapid change of packages here. The packages were reconfigured (along with the prices) two weeks after I signed up. And now this discussion about making changes again and I'm only in my third month here. I don't know how long JodoHost has been around (from what I gather not very long), or how many times packages changed before I got here, but I hope there will be some stability at some point as far as getting what we signed up for. I'm not really complaining at this point because I know the intent is to provide something better. I'm just concerned this may be part of a trend.
We've been here for almost a year now. We'll be completing a year on December 30.
We made only two major package changes since we started off. Once when we introduced Summary Disk Usage and the second time (which you are talking about) when we reduced bandwidth quotas. I don't forsee any future package changes because these set of packages are working out very well (of course after we replace SDU with a fixed quota system)
Switching customers to Helm is going to cost us alot of money. We'll have to setup parallel servers again, buy new licenses for MS SQL, Cold Fusion, Windows, etc. The Mail server software we plan to buy (for IMAP support, anti-spam support, webmail) isn't cheap either. We are doing this simply because we want to provide better services to our customers. Almost every customer request will be covered with this.
We are looking at ways we can minimize the effect of this change to customers benefiting from SDU.
We made only two major package changes since we started off. Once when we introduced Summary Disk Usage and the second time (which you are talking about) when we reduced bandwidth quotas. I don't forsee any future package changes because these set of packages are working out very well (of course after we replace SDU with a fixed quota system)
Switching customers to Helm is going to cost us alot of money. We'll have to setup parallel servers again, buy new licenses for MS SQL, Cold Fusion, Windows, etc. The Mail server software we plan to buy (for IMAP support, anti-spam support, webmail) isn't cheap either. We are doing this simply because we want to provide better services to our customers. Almost every customer request will be covered with this.
We are looking at ways we can minimize the effect of this change to customers benefiting from SDU.
Yash said:
Helm - a firm NO!
SQL Databases is the point where I'm unhappy with another host using HELM. I'm up till now unable to access the SQL database with ms enterprise server. I prefer you to stay with HSphere, I really don't like switching back to the fixed quota system for MS SQL Databases. I also don't like to upload the whole sites again.
You mention you loose some, you gain some, it seems that the "balance" is not good enough for a change, so Helm? No!.
yorri said:What do we lose???
1) Webshere 4 supports file and folder permissions..Helm doesn't (we are running websphere 3)
2) can't find anything about SSI management
3) the OSEcommerce application would have to manually added to our websites (big deal - we can download it ourselves anyway)
4)we lose the sqlserverenterprise website managerbut again...we can install it on our sites ourselves
5)
What do we gain
1) ftp sub accounts on windows YEAH!!
2) better webmail YEAH!!
3) better stats YEAH!! throught awstats or urchin
4) wysiwyg editor in the file manager (no big deal but nice touch)
5) DNS Zone record editing...not for everyone but I like anything that gives me full control
6) Summary disk usage
I can't think of anything else...maybe we can continue to add to this list and then take a poll???
I think that "Yeah's" are not good enough to make a change. Websphere 4 seems to support what is essential such as file permissions. There are easy solutions for webmail and online ftp-ing. Better stats could be "purchased" for hsphere as well. It seems that some people at jodohost press for helm and others for hsphere. I also host accounts with www.tacticalsystems.com who use Helm. I was actually considering moving some accounts to jodohost as I've problems with MS SQL on those accounts and dislike the implementation of Helm they have.
Yash said:
From the responses so far I've not seen one convincing argument to switch, hence I don't understand the comment that it "looks all the more probable". Is it a done deal, if so why even bother discussing it. One of jodohost's attractions deals with the MS SQL databases which are in my view better handled than tacticalsystems.com. I would hate to loose this confidence, and furthermore I really don't like to re-upload my site again wondering if everything will work. So far I've not successfully copied a database driven site between tacticalsystems and jodohost and just leave them where they are.
I'm indeed a very worried customer
eko. I appreciate your comments. I personally have never used Helm before.
No decision has been taken yet to switch to Helm. I threw this open for everyone to debate. Since no one raised any major objects, I said "it was all the more probable"
As for transfering databases and sites, we would be doing pretty much most of the work so you don't have to worry about that.
What problems have you been facing with MS SQL at tacticalsystems? If they are serious enough, we will stick with HSphere.
No decision has been taken yet to switch to Helm. I threw this open for everyone to debate. Since no one raised any major objects, I said "it was all the more probable"
As for transfering databases and sites, we would be doing pretty much most of the work so you don't have to worry about that.
What problems have you been facing with MS SQL at tacticalsystems? If they are serious enough, we will stick with HSphere.
hatton
Perch
Dave said:
It does depend on what kind of data you are storing. In the case of the phone book app they were simple text records and categories. Different databases will be different sizes depending on what you're storing.
I agree that giving people the choice of one or the other would be best. As I mentioned before, I personally would like the ability to "swap" databases, maybe at a 1-1 or 2-1 ratio. I'd love to be able to "trade in" my PostGreSQL databases for a couple more SQL databases when the time comes.
Hatton
WineIsGood
Perch
With regard to DB size, it all has to do with the record size and what's in the index leaf nodes. If you have a phone book with only a few fields like fname, lname, address, phone, and it's only searchable by lname, then a smart index scheme can save lots of space by having the lname data field already in the keyed leaf node. It could be really small. Whatever... off topic anyway.
Anyway........ my question regarding Hsphere, etc, is why? It's working now and I want basically just one thing out of my host: reliability. Bringing on change is a good way to take down sites/email/etc. If it were an important upgrade, or one that needs to be done to keep up with the changing times, then I say it's necessary. Other than that, why bother? It's not like I'm in hsphere all day... maybe others are?
-Dave
Anyway........ my question regarding Hsphere, etc, is why? It's working now and I want basically just one thing out of my host: reliability. Bringing on change is a good way to take down sites/email/etc. If it were an important upgrade, or one that needs to be done to keep up with the changing times, then I say it's necessary. Other than that, why bother? It's not like I'm in hsphere all day... maybe others are?
-Dave
We'll let everyone know what we decide by tomorrow. I'd appreciate any last comments on whether they'd prefer Helm or HSphere.
If we stick to HSphere, the new cluster we deploy would have Urchin and HordeMail. If we go with Helm, you'd get IMAP support, spam filtering support, FTP sub accounts, sub-directory ASP/ASP.NET apps and of course Urchin and better webmail support
If we stick to HSphere, the new cluster we deploy would have Urchin and HordeMail. If we go with Helm, you'd get IMAP support, spam filtering support, FTP sub accounts, sub-directory ASP/ASP.NET apps and of course Urchin and better webmail support
ungrounded
Perch
eko said:
I think I've read several convincing arguments, but a few that stick out to me:
-From what I've read on these forums for the last month, lots of people want the additonal FTP account support.
-The ability to run .net apps from sub-directories would be great!
-I use the webclient throughout the day at work so any upgrade there would make me happy.
Yash said:
Spam filtering would be really cool. I say go with Helm.
The only thing I would like to know is what kind of downtime if any, would we see?
Also would we basically have to set up Helm from scratch or would our settings from hsphere get merged in somehow?
Thanks,
Jason
Yash said:
The problem with the database on tacticalsystems is that I have no way to access the tables using all kinds of software including ms enterprise manager, while with the same setup I've no problems what so ever with the jodohost ms sql databases. The tacticalsystems people don't know what the problem is, although they managed to access the database and after a week made a backup file (.bak) which is not very helpful. Your online sql utility is great and works well. I can actually also logon to my tacticalsystems ms sql file using your utility, it does allow access to the database but does not allow to make a backup. There might be something wrong with the tacticalsystems database settings. You notice when using helm that it actually provides less information about the database than hsphere (you've e.g. to go to dsn entries to know the sql server parameters). I appreciate your listening to your customers and if the majority sees enough reason to change then I really hope that you'll address the MS SQL issue(s) properly.
Yash said:
Yash, I don't remember, or maybe you didn't say, but what was it that got you considering the change from CSphere to Heml anyway? Is it a licensing, cost or support issue with PSoft? Is there some other personal or technical reason? I'm just wondering. If there is some reason that you believe you need to change, then it seems like there is some support from the users here for the change. You can never make everybody happy, regardless of what you do.
I looked through the Helm demo and it seems to have everything I want. If I get better mail, including IMAP support, that would be great.
Couple questions:
Did I read somewhere in the thread that we would have to go back to a set size for SQL databases? Like 50mb for the value plan? I like the ability to use all my 200megs of disk space on a DB if I so desire. But I will live with the new plan.
What is Urchin?
What does "better webmail support" mean? How much better? What package? I think SQMail stinks, so anything better would be good.
I can go either way, CSphere or Helm. Helm would be fine and I'd love the extra mail features. So do whatever you have to do and let us know how we can help. Thanks.
Still waiting for an answer regarding email and SSI with Helm. What will happen with email after you switch from SDU??? and can we configure the SSI extensions support like in Hsphere?
As for database support. I think there is an advantage to one dB and multiple dbs as well. Not every customers needs will be met by one solution (that is the case for anything right.)
so....
I think that if Jodohost can provide flexible solutions for it's customers then it will maintain its current good track record but I am not sure how flexible Helm can be but Yash, since you are making such big changes I hope you are going to be flexible with your existing customer base...especially if we have to go through a rough time switching over to the new system.
Edo...the problem with Hsphere is that it is not easy to plug into (from what I understand). I am not impressed with the development from the authors who make it either (PSOFT). They seem very slow on implementing improvements (some features have been suggested on their forum now for at least or almost a year now and all they say is...its coming). I don't see why adding support for multiple ftp accounts on windows is such a difficult thing (considering all the other things Hspere does....but then I am not going to try and judge too much because development is not easy and I am sure they have their reasons for not adding many of the features they say they want to). I am not sure if the company that makes Helm is any better but from what I see the basic features Helm supports is better than the features of Hsphere (or maybe their focus is different, don't know.
I think it's great having discussions like this...these forums definitely make me happy I am a customer of Jodohost
As for database support. I think there is an advantage to one dB and multiple dbs as well. Not every customers needs will be met by one solution (that is the case for anything right.)
so....
I think that if Jodohost can provide flexible solutions for it's customers then it will maintain its current good track record but I am not sure how flexible Helm can be but Yash, since you are making such big changes I hope you are going to be flexible with your existing customer base...especially if we have to go through a rough time switching over to the new system.
Edo...the problem with Hsphere is that it is not easy to plug into (from what I understand). I am not impressed with the development from the authors who make it either (PSOFT). They seem very slow on implementing improvements (some features have been suggested on their forum now for at least or almost a year now and all they say is...its coming). I don't see why adding support for multiple ftp accounts on windows is such a difficult thing (considering all the other things Hspere does....but then I am not going to try and judge too much because development is not easy and I am sure they have their reasons for not adding many of the features they say they want to). I am not sure if the company that makes Helm is any better but from what I see the basic features Helm supports is better than the features of Hsphere (or maybe their focus is different, don't know.
I think it's great having discussions like this...these forums definitely make me happy I am a customer of Jodohost