fine $100 per spam-email message!!!!!???

O

opos

Guppy
There is something really worrying in JodoHost END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT. How can you (JodoHost) explain that? What do you (users) think about?

--------------------------------------
If Customer resells the Services he or she is paying for, the Customer will be responsible for his or her Clients. JodoHost only recognizes the Customer who is paying for the Services and not his or her clients.

The following activities are considered as email abuse and are prohibited:
1. Unsolicited bulk emailing. This includes, but not limited to commercial advertising, informational announcements, charity requests, petitions for signatures, and political or religious tracts. Such emails may only be sent in if the receiver explicitly requested such information directly from you.
(...)

Emailing abuse carries a fine of up to $100 USD per email message sent, depending on the severity of the violation. Email abuse is also grounds for immediate suspension of your Service Account and an appropriate legal action.
-----------------------------------------

...so if i resell JodoHost services and one of my client will send 100 commercial advertising e-mails, I may be charged 100*$100 = $10.000 USD for it???? I really dont like to take responsibility for my clients, especially if I have no possibility to control their actions. ?(
 
We have never applied that fine..

What we practise may be far different from one is written in the TOS... The TOS simply allows us to apply a particular clause in the rare case we have to

For example, if we get a professional spammer that has directly signed up with us and causes damage to our network and servers (overload, network blacklisting), we can seek damages under this clause

In a normal situation, if your customer spams, we'll inform you and ask you to take action, or suspend that sub account and then inform you, depending on the severity of the abuse. We only very rarely will suspend your entire reseller account if we receive no cooperation from you or you are actually aiding the spammers.
 
Yash said:
What we practise may be far different from one is written in the TOS... The TOS simply allows us to apply a particular clause in the rare case we have to
Click to expand...

This is only your assurance, but what if my client will send 1000 of emails and you will suddenly change your mind? ...well the TOS authorize you to claim for $100.000 USD!!! In my opinion it's not acceptable. Hosting in reseller scale is not so big bussines to risk such a consequence. Don't you think?

Yash said:
For example, if we get a professional spammer that has directly signed up with us and causes damage to our network and servers (overload, network blacklisting), we can seek damages under this clause
Click to expand...

In case of damage to your network you can seek damages under law, you do not need this clause.

This clause may only lead to misuse and is potentialy dangerous for your clients. For example what is your definition of "professional spammer"? Will that definition be constant in time? Who in JodoHost will make decision about who is and who is not "professional spammer"? Will that person allways in the same state of mind? Will that person allways employee/owner of JodoHost?

And even if we will agree who is a "professional spamer", you have to realize that resellers can not control their clients (they had to read all messages...). So on what basis reseller could take so hard responsibility?

Yash said:
In a normal situation, if your customer spams, we'll inform you and ask you to take action, or suspend that sub account and then inform you, depending on the severity of the abuse. We only very rarely will suspend your entire reseller account if we receive no cooperation from you or you are actually aiding the spammers.
Click to expand...

So write in the TOS that in case of email abuse you will suspend sub account and don't fine resellers for sub-users.
--------------
I really would like to join resellers of JodoHost but cannot accept potential consequence of email abuse of my clients (which is disproportionate to scale of bussines). So please consider to modify the TOS in some way. I think your resellers will also appreciate.
 
I would recommend that you go read the TOS of many other hosts, they include similar language.
 
Stephen said:
I would recommend that you go read the TOS of many other hosts, they include similar language.
Click to expand...
Thank you for reply.

I red about 10 of them and only one had per email charge in case of spaming. Please consider examples of how could you solve the problem of spaming in more user-friendly way (this are real solutions of top popular hosting companies):

(1)
SPAMing, or the sending of unsolicited email, from a XXXXXX server or using a return email address that is maintained on a XXXXXX server is STRICTLY prohibited. Using SPAM to advertise a site hosted on XXXXXX network also constitutes as a violation of this provision. XXXXXX will be the sole arbiter as to what constitutes a violation of this provision. Sites found to be in violation of our SPAM policies will be immediately suspended and the reseller in charge of the account will be notified. In the event that one of our resellers is found SPAMming, the reseller's site will be suspended until further notice (or asked to be relocated to a new provider). XXXXXX reserves the right to require a reseller to discontinue hosting any account that we feel is problematic.

(1)
Any use of Spam (Unsolicited Bulk Email) is prohibited. Any cusomter found utilizing bulk email thorugh our system will receive a warning unless the level of spam requires more drastic action. This is at XXXXXX discretion to determine the appropriate action. Additionally any customer found using spam through other servers to further their domains located here will be dealt with in the same manner. XXXXXX maintains a Zero Tolerance policy for spam and spam related actions. XXXXXX reserves the right to terminate any and all accounts accused of multiple spam complaints.

(3)
We react quickly and seriously to violations, and we further reserve the right to terminate the services, without prior notice, of any customer disregarding this policy. Sending unsolicited commercial email (a.k.a. "spam"), cross-posting messages to a large number of usenet groups, posting obscene or threatening messages while using or referring to an cartikahosting.com email address or web site URL is prohibited. The use of XXXXXX servers as a mail drop for responses to activities described above is also prohibited. Accounts canceled due to spam will be billed a "clean up" fee of $250.
 
opos,

Yash explained our side of it, and the fact it has never been used.

But I really would recommend taking some responsiblity for your customers, you need to screen them and not just take everyone that signs up(as many are fraud or spammers). We are very good about giving warnings, and only if warnings are ignored or not heeded does the reseller get their account turned suspended. If we have continual problems with spam from a reseller, we have to let them go for the best interest of the customers, but a one time thing is something we all have to deal with in todays internet world.
 
Stephen said:
opos,

Yash explained our side of it, and the fact it has never been used.

But I really would recommend taking some responsiblity for your customers, you need to screen them and not just take everyone that signs up(as many are fraud or spammers). We are very good about giving warnings, and only if warnings are ignored or not heeded does the reseller get their account turned suspended. If we have continual problems with spam from a reseller, we have to let them go for the best interest of the customers, but a one time thing is something we all have to deal with in todays internet world.
Click to expand...
Stephen,

I understand your TOS and your policy as stated, but I would like to flesh things out a little further (I don't know opos, I just stumbled onto this topic). I'm looking at one of your plans now for my web development business. I've worked in what I would call white hat affiliate & email marketing for years. That side of my business is totally separate from my web development business for which I am evaluating hosting, but due to it I have a lot of experience dealing with newsletter mailouts and such.

On the web development side I work mostly with non-profits and small businesses who (currently) at most have several hundred concurrent people they might need to send a newsletter to. Right now the non-profits are the only clients looking to do mailings and then only to their internal member list, so obviously it's not spam. However, from my aforementioned work I know that just due to margin of error there are always spam complaints (user generated or generated by bayesian filters) on any mailing to more than a few people. Sometimes people just forget they're a member of something and forward it to a uce address and sometimes their ISP's filters have a low threshhold and spit back a BS complaint. If I'm sending out legitimate, non-spam newsletters that are generating these kind of benign complaints is that the kind of thing I would be warned about?

Thanks for any clarification you can provide. I suppose what I'm asking is whether you look into the context of these complaints before taking summary action.

Thanks!

EDIT: This answers part of my question, however I would like to know how you decide what is and isnt' spam as there are a number of total cowboy RBLs and other groups running amok who erroneously claim that things are spam with impunity.
 
When you send out thousands of email to your members who have suscribed to you mailing lists, there is always such possiblities. These are exceptional cases, in such cases we contact our customer or reseller to get the matter sorted out either by removing such persons from mailing list or ensuring that receiver do not flag it as spam. There is no fine there.
 
Atul said:
When you send out thousands of email to your members who have suscribed to you mailing lists, there is always such possiblities. These are exceptional cases, in such cases we contact our customer or reseller to get the matter sorted out either by removing such persons from mailing list or ensuring that receiver do not flag it as spam. There is no fine there.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your prompt response Atul. I certainly don't want to send email to people who don't want it and I also don't want to end up on my host's bad side for miscommunications. Your reply re-assures me that you give a fair hearing to all complaints, and that is all I can ask for. After all, I don't want spammers on my host anymore than you want spammers on your machines, heh.

Thanks again!
 
Well, I guess Yash isn't dead after all. I assumed that he must be or otherwise he would have answered my repeated emails and PM's.
 
Viper said:
Well, I guess Yash isn't dead after all. I assumed that he must be or otherwise he would have answered my repeated emails and PM's.
Click to expand...

Hi Viper

I am sorry, just noticed your PM.. I don't usually check it.. I'll reply to you shortly
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top