24 hour downtime for DNS Propogation

Customer Support Customer Only Discussion
1

I need some feedback on this issue - here’s a chat session I had earlier tonight. I’m posting in the private area because I’m not looking to cause trouble, just asking a simple question… But I must not be making my request clear. Please read this and let me know why I’m off-base.

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info: You are now chatting with ‘akshay’
akshay: Welcome to our live-chat. How may I help you ?
David Finster: I had to change a site to dedicated IP. Is there any way to work through the 24 hour DNS propogation issue? Why can’t the old site continue to accept connections on that host header during the transition? As it stands, they are just 100% down.
akshay: may i know your Reseller account name
David Finster: fortress. The domain in question is breederschoiceonline.com
akshay: ok
akshay: let me check it…
akshay: may i know your default page
David Finster: Equine Division | Shop Equine Supplies | Buy Online Now
akshay: ok
akshay: please hold on for few min..
David Finster: ok
akshay: may i know when you switch to dedicated IP
David Finster: About 1 hour ago.
akshay: please use www.breederschoiceonline.com
akshay: and 64.187.108.138
David Finster: I don’t understand.
David Finster: 64.187.108.138 is the new dedicated IP, I understand that.
David Finster: www.breederschoiceonline.com still shows in DNS (not on jodohost, but on the rest of the internet) as the old IP, 64.187.101.206
David Finster: So why can’t the old IP still accept the host header and process the request for 1 day, even though it’s not the real server?
David Finster: Is it just an HSphere limitation?
David Finster: I can do it with IIS on my server…
David Finster: Or, better yet, (doesn’t solve my problem today, but might in the future) can we lower the TTL on DNS from 24 hours to something more reasonable, like 4 hours, or even 1 hour?
akshay: switching from shared ip to dedicate ip takes 24 because new new ip need to be propogate n globally
akshay: but you can access you dite through new dedicated ip
akshay: *site
David Finster: Yes, but it is possible to have both IP’s answer to the domain name… so there would be zero down time.
David Finster: Sure, I can access the site via IP, but customers cannot - they don’t know the IP.
David Finster: That’s my question - when switching to dedicated IP, why not leave the existing site alone for 24 - 36 hours, so there isn’t any downtime, then remove the old site in a day or two.
akshay: your customer can aaccess your site through www.domain
akshay: i checked it is running
David Finster: It works for you becuase your DNS server is at jodohost.
akshay: it is not in our hand as much fast it propogate it will work globally
David Finster: Here’s the deal:
David Finster: Server “A” answers to "breederschoiceonline.com - right?
David Finster: When you switch to dedicated IP, now server “b” answers, and we have to wait for propogation.
David Finster: But - if you leave Server “a” so it will still answer to the breederschoiceonline host header, then it will answer the “misdirected” requests during the popogation period.
David Finster: I do this with other hosts - it’s completely possible.
David Finster: For instance - when I moved this site to jodohost, I set up the server here, and left the server at the old host running.
David Finster: Then I changed DNS - and there was zero downtime.
David Finster: Some people went to the old server, some came to the new during the popogation period, but it didn’t matter.
David Finster: It’s e-commerce, but I pointed both servers to the SQL server at jodohost, so no matter which server took the order, it went to the same database - no problem.
David Finster: So why can’t both IP’s at jodohost answer to the domain name during the transition?
akshay: yes you should wait 24 hrs for propagation of new IP
akshay: your domain was ran on shared IP and shared ip was bind with your domain at grobal database
akshay: so now you have switched from shared IP to dedicated IP
David Finster: This isn’t just a one-time problem for me tonight. it’s a bigger problem, long term with all customers at JodoHost.
akshay: then your domain will take to bind with new IP on global database
akshay: this isnot our problem
David Finster: Can I have your permission to post this question to the forums, so we can discuss it further?
akshay: dns update will take time at global end not our end
David Finster: Propogation isn’t your problem, I agree.
akshay: then where is the problem?
akshay: if you agree that
David Finster: However, I’m pointing out a simple way to greatly improve your service level and prevent downtime during the propogation period.
akshay: then tell us where is the problem?
akshay: then i will explain to you
akshay: your domain is not down at this moment
akshay: you can not access your domain directly with domain name
David Finster: The problem is that you could easily provide both IP’s during the transition, and my customers website would not be offline for 24 hours.
akshay: you can access your domain with new IP
David Finster: I understand - the site isn’t “really” down as far as jodohost is concerned.
akshay: when a customer will create an account or domain then he will get shared IP first
David Finster: But for all practical purposes, it’s dead.
David Finster: It could be up and running, if the old shared IP had been allowed to continue to service the requests for 1 day.
akshay: no
akshay: it will not allow to run with shared Ip
akshay: because you have already switched your domain from shared to dedicated
David Finster: It’s not an IIS limitation - I do that here all the time.
akshay: your domain will bind with new IP on our control panel
David Finster: Is it just an HSphere limitation?
akshay: so it will depend on global database
David Finster: Sure, through the control panel, nothing I can do.
akshay: it is the global dns
David Finster: But on the back-end, in IIS, it can be fixed.
akshay: because your domain information will update on global database
David Finster: I see you don’t understand.
akshay: when you will trying your domain access this request going to global database then come back to our webserver
akshay: yes i understand you
David Finster: During DNS propogation, some clients will get the new IP, some will get the old IP.
David Finster: No problem there, that’s normal.
akshay: how it normal can you explain to me
David Finster: What I’m saying is that there is no reason the website cannot be up and running at both IPs.
David Finster: IIS can deal with it, even on the same server.
akshay: if yourdomain will not pointing to new IP then how you can access your domain directly
David Finster: And, if the website was up and running at both IP’s, just for a short time, there wouldn’t be any downtime at all.
akshay: IIS can deal this
akshay: how can global dns will deal this
David Finster: DNS just has the new IP.
akshay: new IP was generated on our server and our cp server
akshay: but global dns still not update yet
David Finster: Once the old IP fades away in the DNS propogation, then we tear down the old site at the old IP.
akshay: so how dns will deal your new IP instantly
akshay: no
David Finster: That’s the point - DNS doesn’t deal with it instantly - thats why we need the server running at both IP’s for 1 day.
akshay: both IP’s?
David Finster: Right. IIS will allow you to run a site at an IP that isn’t in DNS.
David Finster: That way, if people still have the old IP in the DNS cache, they can still get to the old site.
David Finster: I do it all the time on my test server here.
akshay: Kindly view this url Free Tools - Software Reviews, Opinions, and Tips - DNSstuff
akshay: you will see new IP
akshay: and this IP will take to update in global dns
akshay: some time before your domain IP was showing 206 which one is shared
akshay: now your domain showing dedicated IP
akshay: and this IP already assiged for your domain
David Finster: Yes, but Jodohost has set the TTL on DNS to 24 hours.
akshay: yes
akshay: this the by default by hsphere
David Finster: Do NSLOOKUP and set the server to “dns.solbroadband.com”, and you’ll see that the rest of the net doesn’t know it yet.
David Finster: So, if by your kind service, you allow that website (just in IIS, not in DNS) to run at the old IP for just one day, then take it down tomorrow, the site would stay up for everyone.
info: Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.

2

David a few things here:

  1. Yes it is possible for ME to make a site respond on both, but Hsphere does not do this, also hsphere warns when you switch.
  2. DNS cache at some servers is a long time.
  3. Hsphere makes that long TTL, we could edit it but it would take many hours after the fact, and the next time hsphere touches it, it will be back to a high TTL.

When you switch from shared to dedicated, hpshere does note that there could to will be 24 hours downtime.

3

I saw the warning, but there is little I could do - other factors have forced me to switched to dedicated IP.

I guess what I’m asking is if I can open a ticket to have you do it manually, I see that HSphere has this limitation. It’s an e-commerce site, and for all practical purposes, it’s offline for a full day.

I understand I’m asking for above and beyond - but I’d be ever so grateful.

4

David,

I have set the site to listen on the shared IP with the host headers there as well.

You have to remember sometimes you are speaking with level1 tech support that might not understand that IIS can listen on two IPs at once.

Sometimes we have to fix hsphere mistakes because it puts the same host header in a configuration two time, causing IIS to stop the site because it is “already found”, the level1 techs could see this as listening on two IPs and be confused. I will work with akshay to understand this, and in the future if he does not, he should recommend the client to send a ticket referenced to me.

5

Or, if it’s not possible for this client, what procedure could I use in the future? Having a full day of downtime is a tough sell to the customer.

6

Oh bless you!

I see it up now. Should I open a ticket after tomorrow to have the old IP shut down again?

I can’t thank you enough.

7

No, I’ll just leave it up till Monday morning when I come in from the weekend, that should insure every DNS server in the world is updated by them.

8

All I can say is: Dude, you rock. You’ve seriously earned my respect for customer service and above and beyond support. I’ll do my best not to abuse you helpfulness.

Thank you.

9

It’s what we’re here for :slight_smile:

Next time we can handle a request like this in ticket :angel:

10

[QUOTE=Stephen]
It’s what we’re here for :slight_smile:

Next time we can handle a request like this in ticket :angel:
[/QUOTE]

This should be a request sent to psoft. It should be a simple thing for them to ask the user if they want it shutdown immediately or some time frame before removing it.

Anyway… it shouldn’t be a difficult thing and I realize having psoft do anything with it may never happen. It just seems that having a site down for 24 hours would be something psoft would have ran into many times in the past and allow for it in their software.

I will definitely make note of this so I can send a ticket for possible future changes.

By the way, good work Stephen.

Greg