apache -> u get what u pay for & Case sensitivity

R

ricka0

Perch
The smart/lazy Apache programers were to lazy to do URI recognition right (case insensitive map to file system) so URI's are case sensitive. The HTTP standard says only Verbs are case sensitive, altho I don't think even Apache honors that. It's makes it clear that Domains are not case sensitive.

Not only does case make URI's far easier to read/write, why should not programmers be subjected to the underlying OS problems?


www.PigsReallyFly/DogsFlyToo/SwimmingDog.htm is far easier to read thaN
WWW.PIGSREALLYFLY/DOGSFLYTOO/SWIMMINGDOG.HTM

MS get's it right by accident as NTFS and their other file systems are not case sensitive.
 
Right - tell that to my non programmer customers who add new pages to their site. User Hostile - what a friggen joke. They can't even do simple scripting - but they can use FrontPage and other WISIWYG editors to do most of their work. When Apache reports URL not found - but they can see via FTP the file is there, they have the correct path, etc - they are confused as HE!! I was too when the first customer called in desperate frustration. I thought there must be an Apache reality/reasonable setting to make URI's insensitive - nope. The answer goDaddy.com support gave me is move them from $3.50/month Apache to $9.50/month IIS


Who is it expected by? Certainly not the general non-programmer public. Certainly not C++/Java language type programmers.

ever done any C/C++/C#/Java programming? - u'd get fired on the first day if your variables were all lc.
 
ricka0 said:
Not only does case make URI's far easier to read/write, why should not programmers be subjected to the underlying OS problems?
Click to expand...

Wow - I take it you've never worked with *NIX systems at a programming level... nor have you had to work with some of the more complex programming languages.

CASE is sensitive for a reason. On a fundamental level ever character translates to a numerical value. ANSII character codes define these values at a base level.

It's an age-old debate... and one that you as a programmer can work around if you look at it from the correct angle. Every language supported by JodoHost can read the filesystem. Why not create your own 404 page that (using PHP, CF or ASP) looks at the incorrect filename, scans the directory for a match ignoring case and redirects the user to the correct file.

Hatton
 
hatton said:
Wow - I take it you've never worked with *NIX systems at a programming level... nor have you had to work with some of the more complex programming languages.
Hatton
Click to expand...
And you base that on what?

Uhh - You might want to review my article on "non-deterministic destructors in Java" - and how to fix that problem - or a # articles I published on perf/programming while at the evil Empire.

I left enuix for NT because I was a more productive X/Motif programmer on NT 4/VC 4.2 than I was on ennix. Haven't looked back, tools r far superior on MS platforms - it just sucks that IIS hosting costs WAY 2 MUCH.

hatton said:
CASE is sensitive for a reason. On a fundamental level ever character translates to a numerical value. ANSII character codes define these values at a base level.
Click to expand...
OMG - Obviously - have you ever heard of a map? Have you ever heard of a String methods compareNoCase? How does Window OS's get around that problem - from day one they did case insensitive lookups (and they did it the hard way in C, pre STL so no nice string classes)

hatton said:
Why not create your own 404 page that (using PHP, CF or ASP) looks at the incorrect filename, scans the directory for a match ignoring case and redirects the user to the correct file.
Click to expand...

That could be a good idea.
OMG part II - please pick up a book on performance and data structures. What a perf killer. The correct way to do it is with a map - but you make a good point - that may be a way to solve the problem

ASP doesn't need it because the underlying OS is case ignorant. I don't do ASP, ASP.Net is far superior.

Maybe someone has a 404 page that could look at a Map on apache - that does sound like a good idea. Someone must have done it - I really don't want to learn non .Net stuff - but I also don't want to pay for IIS6 :(
 
Not really laziness on their part. The unix filesystem is always case-sensitive so the task of rewriting all URLS to match the case of the file on disk would be significant, and they can't control the case variance of the files on disk.

mod_spelling should automatically create a redirect to the correct file if the cases are different.

Maybe the unix filesystem authors were the lazy ones:)
 
personally there are times I wish windows WAS case sensitive.

It is all a matter of preference.

However, I have really grown to love windows, IIS can be a pain at times, but it is getting better. Database connectivity with Access databases I wish would be dropped at an OS level by MS, just so people would stop using such a bad database system for websites, but other than that it is overall very stable.
 
ricka0 said:
And you base that on what?
Click to expand...

I based my comment solely on your complaint and the fact that it is common knowledge that val("A") does not equal val("a").

However, I will fully admit that all of my disk-based programming was done on an HP-UX system and case-sensitivity was drilled into our skulls from day one. I also admit that I belive in the phrase, "When in Rome, do as the Romans". That is to say that when I'm working in my usual arena (ColdFusion) I don't worry about the case sensetivity until I start interacting with a MySQL database, where the queries are case sensitive.
 
largerabbit said:
mod_spelling should automatically create a redirect to the correct file if the cases are different.
Click to expand...

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_speling.html

Hrm - good point there too. Might not be a bad idea to submit a ticket to have JH make sure that the mod is installed and running on the linux boxes.

Stephen, think you could pass the question on to one of the Linux server admins and see if they're already handling this on Jodo - might be a prompt for Rick to move his clients over to JodoHost.
 
That's why JodoHost has gotten rave reviews at a number of different web hosting review sites.

Here are links to thier different plans:
Windows - http://www.jodohost.com/windows.asp
(They segregate ColdFusion and ASP/.NET servers so be careful which sign-up link you click on)

Linux - http://www.jodohost.com/linux.asp

Reseller - http://www.jodohost.com/reseller.asp

I personally went with a reseller account for myself and then set up accounts for clients as I need to. It was a lot of work to set up initially but it has been worth it in the long run.
 
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