Well I figured it out but not this way. I noticed that Hsphere says one thing in the editing of a redirect but something totally different on page that lists all the redirects. It says that it redirects from www.subdomain.yourdomain.com (why it puts the www in front I have no idea because I never set that up) BUT....when you enter in the horde redirect adress and save your changes, it doesn't have the www in front of the redirect address. This is an obvious mistake in Hspere and it made my so confused because I didn't want to redirect www.subdomain, I wanted to redirect subdomain. (check it out). I decided to add a couple of screen shots to make it easier to understand. when you add a redirect it adds www to the front of the subdomain as you can see in editredirect.jpg but then in the listing of existing redirects then doesn't show the www. This is why I was confused. I just ignored the www and glad I did becuase it really isn't there. It just shows up on the edit redirect page...weird.